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Author Topic: How recovering from LL surgery screws you up neurologically  (Read 1268 times)

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OverrideYourGenetics

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New study published today helped me make sense of why I've not been myself, on a deep psychological level, during recovery. And I'm not alone. Others like Purushrottam, badwolf, fallen774 have suffered from the same major apathy, basically becoming couch potatoes.

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2018-05-leg-critical-brain-nervous-health.html

Groundbreaking research shows that neurological health depends as much on signals sent by the body's large, leg muscles to the brain as it does on directives from the brain to the muscles. Published today in Frontiers in Neuroscience, the study fundamentally alters brain and nervous system medicine [...]

"Our study supports the notion that people who are unable to do load-bearing exercises—such as patients who are bed-ridden, or even astronauts on extended travel—not only lose muscle mass, but their body chemistry is altered at the cellular level and even their nervous system is adversely impacted,"

Limiting physical activity decreased the number of neural stem cells by 70 percent compared to a control group of mice, which were allowed to roam. Furthermore, both neurons and oligodendrocytes—specialized cells that support and insulate nerve cells—didn't fully mature when exercise was severely reduced.

The research shows that using the legs, particularly in weight-bearing exercise, sends signals to the brain that are vital for the production of healthy neural cells, essential for the brain and nervous system. Cutting back on exercise makes it difficult for the body to produce new nerve cells—some of the very building blocks that allow us to handle stress and adapt to challenge in our lives.


This makes me urge anyone considering LL to **only** look at weight-bearing nails, out of which STRYDE is by far the best because you can walk unaided three weeks after the surgery and there's no painful clicking as with the Guichet nail.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2018, 11:12:58 PM by OverrideYourGenetics »
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My diary. Tibias+femurs 3.75+3.75cm at the Paley Institute (5'5" -> 5'8") in my late 30s.
One of the last patients to use the PRECICE 2.2 nail. I met the first STRYDE patient and I strongly recommend the new STRYDE nail instead.

Android

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Re: How recovering from LL screws you up neurologically
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2018, 10:48:39 PM »

Interesting! Great advice for everyone to keep in mind. It's also comforting to know that increased apathy and mood changes can be attributed to this. Simply being cognizant will help you get through the hardest parts if you know it's temporary.

Fascinating share as always, thanks.
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5'4" and 1/4" (163.2 cm) | United States | early 30s | Cross-lengthening with Dr. Solomin & Dr. Kulesh

Penguinn

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Re: How recovering from LL surgery screws you up neurologically
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2018, 09:55:07 AM »

Everyone becomes a couch potato during lengthening because the uncertainty of recovery scares you, and becomes the only thing you care about. But after it's all behind you, you don't remain screwed up or have PTSD or anything (at least I don't).

One funny psychological effect of LL that I DID notice though... is that if I can't do something, like stretch my leg a certain way, I never know if it's just a human thing or because of LL. I've asked my gym trainer why I can't easily raise my leg 90 degrees standing up, and he said most people can't, it requires practice. Instances like that.
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myloginacct

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Re: How recovering from LL surgery screws you up neurologically
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2018, 07:08:18 PM »

Beware of nocebo, too. It can absolutely be a real thing.
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Johnson1111

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Re: How recovering from LL surgery screws you up neurologically
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2018, 08:06:09 PM »

What's worse neurologically, being short for your whole lifespan or going through LL for a year?

Sometimes all of your alternatives will hurt in someway and that's reality.
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Purushrottam

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Re: How recovering from LL surgery screws you up neurologically
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2018, 11:18:46 PM »

What's worse neurologically, being short for your whole lifespan or going through LL for a year?

Sometimes all of your alternatives will hurt in someway and that's reality.

I don't think this is a permanent thing. After I got home from lengthening, I just vegetated and played video games for a week. After that I "hit the ground running" (metophorically) with job applications, side projects, and extra readings. And I spent nearly 2 hours/day at the gym. You will get your motivation back fairly quickly after the dull pain/lack of sleep from LL stops.
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OverrideYourGenetics

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Re: How recovering from LL surgery screws you up neurologically
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2018, 03:31:14 AM »

Beware of nocebo, too. It can absolutely be a real thing.

I believe in nocebo!

Thing is, I didn't expect this apathy. On the contrary, I had all these great plans for the recovery period.

Great to hear that Puru got his motivation back once he got back home. I plan to stop lengthening this weekend, and go back home in 2 weeks.
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My diary. Tibias+femurs 3.75+3.75cm at the Paley Institute (5'5" -> 5'8") in my late 30s.
One of the last patients to use the PRECICE 2.2 nail. I met the first STRYDE patient and I strongly recommend the new STRYDE nail instead.

fokid

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Re: How recovering from LL surgery screws you up neurologically
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2018, 01:29:14 PM »


One funny psychological effect of LL that I DID notice though... is that if I can't do something, like stretch my leg a certain way, I never know if it's just a human thing or because of LL. I've asked my gym trainer why I can't easily raise my leg 90 degrees standing up, and he said most people can't, it requires practice. Instances like that.

you mean can't do a front kick ?



i think even most people can do it.
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OverrideYourGenetics

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The frustrations of a cripple
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2018, 11:26:35 PM »

I don't think this is a permanent thing. After I got home from lengthening, I just vegetated and played video games for a week. After that I "hit the ground running" (metophorically) [...] You will get your motivation back fairly quickly after the dull pain/lack of sleep from LL stops.

I've had pretty much the same experience. During the lengthening and the first week or two back home, I was quite apathetic and didn't want to do many things. After that, I started recovering rapidly - especially when I started taking steps with the walker, instead of hopping, then when the x-rays showed I was full weight-bearing. Now that I can drive and get around with a walker, I'm going to work, to the gym, to the supermarket etc. And it's VERY frustrating how painstakingly slow everything is. Here's an example of a "typical" simple day from before and after LL:

Before LL: wake up, get dressed for gym, grab my laptop backpack and the gym bag with work clothes in it, go to the gym, shower there, change, grab lunch, go to work

While recovering from LL, when walking is cumbersome, slow and kinda painful: Wake up late because I don't sleep that well now. Spend a few minutes deciding whether it makes sense to go to the gym, given that I walked quite a lot yesterday, and that showering at the gym is quite challenging now... am I sure the gym has a handicapped shower stall? (it's my first week back to work after ~5 months) I'll need to bring a change of clothes and flip-flops for the shower stall but they don't fit in my laptop backpack, and I can't quite carry both the backpack and a gym bag AND use the walker with at least one hand (oh, and I had to take the trash out on the way). I decide to forget about the shower flip-flops, at the risk of picking up a toe wart from the shower (happened already at that gym), so I stuff everything in the laptop backpack. Oh wait, I forgot to grab a change of socks. Go back to the walk-in closet and grab one. I also need to water the plants on the balcony - something that would take 1 minute normally, now takes 5 (go out, see there's no water in the watering can, go back inside holding the watering can in one hand and the walker in another, fill it up, walker back to the balcony more slowly (filled watering can in one hand), go back out on the balcony, bend over (what a good stretch!) to water the all plants, go back in... realize it's getting late and I might miss lunch if I go to the gym, so I must go grab lunch first, then we'll see about gym and showering. Oh, this guy wants to buy my Berg Polar Care Cube that I no longer need, but I can't possibly carry that with me to the car because I don't exactly have hands, so it'll have to wait.

OK, am I finally ready to get out of the house now? Seems so... I grab the walker, throw the backpack onto my back, grab the garbage bag, and squeeze out through the door. Drop the garbage, go to the elevator, squeeze through the manual elevator door, get out of the building... and realize I forgot my sunglasses. F*ck. No way am I going back for them. So I walker to the car, get in, fold the walker and awkwardly bring it in, careful not to scratch the car. Start driving and go grab lunch at this work cafe I haven't been to yet as a cripple. Park in the handicapped spot (yay). Awkwardly get the walker out and unfold it. Walker to the cafe's door. Realize the door's handicapped button doesn't work. Manage to squeeze through the door etc. Typing this from the cafe. We didn't even get to the gym + shower part. Took me two hours from waking up to getting here.

The point is that when walking - something we normally take for granted - is suddenly much more costly, my brain tries to optimize my path through the world. Just as you plan your errands to hit various points one after the other in sort of a line (instead of going from here to there and back here and back in another place however you feel like), I'm constantly thinking "Is this item I need to pick up on the way? No? Then I'll have to pick it up later when I need to go to point A and it will be on the way to point B". This sort of thinking causes a mental overload - having to keep track of all sort of silly little things that normally would take you 10 seconds to pick up if you could walk.

Then when something doesn't work out (like my forgotten glasses), the situation becomes much more annoying than it would normally be. If I could walk, I'd quickly run upstairs and get the sunglasses. But now, that means going back to the only accessible entrance of the building, dealing with the manual elevator doors, and all those again back on the way out. 10 minutes at least instead of 1 or 2.

So in a way, it's OK if you're apathetic while recovering from massive surgery and don't want to do anything. That way you don't have to constantly plan your way, and there aren't many things you want to do that don't work out. I didn't feel like going to work, or to the gym, or grabbing warm lunch from a cafeteria when I could just microwave some pre-made meal.

I'm thinking this is a survival mechanism - when a human gets badly injured and can't walk, they become apathetic, so they feel okay just vegetating and recovering.
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My diary. Tibias+femurs 3.75+3.75cm at the Paley Institute (5'5" -> 5'8") in my late 30s.
One of the last patients to use the PRECICE 2.2 nail. I met the first STRYDE patient and I strongly recommend the new STRYDE nail instead.

Penguinn

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Re: How recovering from LL surgery screws you up neurologically
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2018, 02:59:51 AM »

you mean can't do a front kick ?



i think even most people can do it.

I can, I can't raise my leg 90 degrees though like this http://antranik.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/front-scale-antranik.jpg but I couldn't before LL either, just not that flexible.

I don't think even most non-LLers can raise it exact 90 degrees without wall support
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taller_in_Kiev

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Re: How recovering from LL surgery screws you up neurologically
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2018, 05:04:01 AM »

Utter and total nonsense!
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5 ft 8 pre LL. 6ft post LL at age 29 in 2004. 4 inches on femurs with internal Bliskunov/Jamal rod.

Penguinn

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Re: How recovering from LL surgery screws you up neurologically
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2018, 09:04:06 AM »

I can, I can't raise my leg 90 degrees though like this http://antranik.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/front-scale-antranik.jpg but I couldn't before LL either, just not that flexible.

I don't think even most non-LLers can raise it exact 90 degrees without wall support

Edit
Just tried and turns out I can lol, can't hold it for long though
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Sweden

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Re: How recovering from LL surgery screws you up neurologically
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2018, 01:23:57 PM »

Edit
Just tried and turns out I can lol, can't hold it for long though

If you do it correctly there is almost close to no chance you can make that. Sorry, but that’s the truth.

Stand with your back close to a wall. Heel touching the wall. Raise the other knee 90 degrees. Now straighten your leg flat out without dropping the leg.

90% of the people in the world can’t do this.

99,5% of LL-people can’t do this.

I can only do this on a good day, just barely.
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173cm before LL with Sarin, jan -13. Now 180cm tall. Considering 5cm on femurs.
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