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[V]

I basically asked a question to a LL veteren who had the surgery in 2007 about if his legs we're back to 100% or not and if he felt like his legs felt like they were older than the rest of his body.

My question:

Well, you did the LL surgery in 2007 and its 2020 now, so after those long 13 years do you feel like your legs are in good health for your current age or do you have the feeling that your legs are like 10+ years older then the rest of your body?


The answer I got from member 'Medium Drink Of Water':

No, I don't feel like they're as healthy as the rest of my body:

They're stiff and I feel like I've reached maximum flexibility with them.
They get tired easier than I think they should/would without LL.
The skin looks a little bit splotchy and veiny, especially over the tibialis anterior muscles, and is injured more easily and takes longer to heal.  I bumped my shin two years ago (spring 2018) and broke the skin, and I can still see the mark.  If that had been on my arm, no way would it show right now.

My conclusion:

You'll legs will never be 100% after the surgery and they will feel older than the rest of your body. If you still think about having the LL surgery I wish you all the luck in the world and hopefully you'll make a quick and healthy recovery!

[mangoman]

Based on that info about one person, you cannot draw a general conclusion.

Medium Drink Of Water did 3 inches on Tibia. That's far more than recommended nowadays.

[V]

Based on that info about one person, you cannot draw a general conclusion.

Medium Drink Of Water did 3 inches on Tibia. That's far more than recommended nowadays.

I'll get more examples of other LL patients just to proof to delusional people that its not a smart choice if you want strong healthy legs and be able to walk normal at 60+...

I obviously understand that some people are simply to delusional to even try to understand my point but even if I can save 1 fellow forum member from that hell like future I'll gladly do my best, by the way if you understand the repurcussions and you're still willing to undergo the procedure even though you understand that you'll legs will never be the same again I'll support you!

[mangoman]

Some questions one should leave to the researchers that have the necessary knowledge and statistical skills. Collecting examples doesn't say anything without proper analysis. So before continuing your honorable mission, please get a PhD in medicine, get the necessary data and get your work reviewed by other academics. Everything else is pointless.

[Medium Drink Of Water]

Hard to say how much you can generalize from my case.  I lengthened a lot, but I started out with very flexible lower legs anyway.  I did gymnastics as a kid, and whenever we'd stretch our calves I'd barely feel anything and wonder if I was even doing the stretch right.

[frenchie]

Most surgeons don't directly answer this question. They normally say:

"there is no evidence to suggest any long term problems"
"LL has existed from decades for discrepancy and there are patients from that era who are ok even today"
"I have treated x cases and all are said they are happy"

CLL deserves its own study of several hundred patients where they are measured objectively after they finish the procedure for various tests like agility, strength, flexibility, etc. This has unfortunately not been done.

[Montreal172]

Don't forget LL has made big strides in 13 years

[frenchie]

Don't forget LL has made big strides in 13 years

"technology has improved a lot in the last 13 years. we are seeing some GREAT outcomes with this new technology. patients are going back to normal life in 2 weeks"

[Medium Drink Of Water]

"technology has improved a lot in the last 13 years. we are seeing some GREAT outcomes with this new technology. patients are going back to normal life in 2 weeks"

This has nothing to do with long-term health though.  All the new technology did was improve mobility and comfort during distraction.

[Movie]

"technology has improved a lot in the last 13 years. we are seeing some GREAT outcomes with this new technology. patients are going back to normal life in 2 weeks"
[/quote}
not a single stryde patient has gone "back to normal life in 2 weeks" lol ... that's almost impossible at 2 weeks we're not even done recovering from surgery trauma. Don't spread false info, inform yourself first.

and @ V... your statement may or may not be true, after all what is 100%? 100% is getting in the same physical shape as you were pre op? doing the same things you were able to do pre op with the same strength and ease? ... if so there's people here who've claimed to have surpassed their pre op abilities and strength with hard work in the gym and dedication.

[V]

This has nothing to do with long-term health though.  All the new technology did was improve mobility and comfort during distraction.

Its hard to try and argue with SOME of the people who want to get LL because they are 'short' and they've finally found a way to get taller and its kinda like were are ruining their dreams which obviously isnt our intention. People just be careful and informed about the repurcussions, thats the only thing I'm asking for dont start regretting it after 10 years when stuff starts going downhill.

[frenchie]

"technology has improved a lot in the last 13 years. we are seeing some GREAT outcomes with this new technology. patients are going back to normal life in 2 weeks"

Can you see the quote marks? I was saying this is how surgeons sometimes comment on whether LL is safe. See Montreal172's and my posts on the thread.

[Movie]

"technology has improved a lot in the last 13 years. we are seeing some GREAT outcomes with this new technology. patients are going back to normal life in 2 weeks"

Can you see the quote marks? I was saying this is how surgeons sometimes comment on whether LL is safe. See Montreal172's and my posts on the thread.

Couldn't read your sarcasm through the screen, sorry lol.

[Medium Drink Of Water]

"technology has improved a lot in the last 13 years. we are seeing some GREAT outcomes with this new technology. patients are going back to normal life in 2 weeks"

Can you see the quote marks? I was saying this is how surgeons sometimes comment on whether LL is safe. See Montreal172's and my posts on the thread.

I've seen a lot of weird writing habits on the internet, especially on the more international forums like this one.  Even from Dr. Monegal himself capitalizing the first letter of every word.

Best to just make things explicit online.

[Polvorón]

I bet that you have registered here only for discouraging people from doing CLL.

I don't know what is the problem with CLL, it is just a cosmetic procedure, a lot of people is criticizing it or laughing at people who do it. First, that people said "you will become crippled", now they cannot say that so they say "You will never be 100% after the surgery", using a single opinion to support his affirmation. It doesn't care that there are a lot of people satisfied or uploading videos with good outcomes, the objective is to induce fear, not to inform people.

And of course, if you start a diaries and you are out two days, that means that you died. That is the reason because if I do CLL (my biggest problem is the price), I wont' write here until I finish the process. I don't want to let other people to use my experience for discouraging other people from doing CLL, just because some day I have a little more pain than expected or I needed one week more than expected to return to my normal life.

I don't understand where is the problem of CLL, why a lot of people try to ridicule it or misinform about it, TV series like Gray's anatomy or SCI had his "moral lessons" to discourage people from CLL.

[V]

I bet that you have registered here only for discouraging people from doing CLL.

I don't know what is the problem with CLL, it is just a cosmetic procedure, a lot of people is criticizing it or laughing at people who do it. First, that people said "you will become crippled", now they cannot say that so they say "You will never be 100% after the surgery", using a single opinion to support his affirmation. It doesn't care that there are a lot of people satisfied or uploading videos with good outcomes, the objective is to induce fear, not to inform people.

And of course, if you start a diaries and you are out two days, that means that you died. That is the reason because if I do CLL (my biggest problem is the price), I wont' write here until I finish the process. I don't want to let other people to use my experience for discouraging other people from doing CLL, just because some day I have a little more pain than expected or I needed one week more than expected to return to my normal life.

I don't understand where is the problem of CLL, why a lot of people try to ridicule it or misinform about it, TV series like Gray's anatomy or SCI had his "moral lessons" to discourage people from CLL.

If you've read some of my other posts you'd know I'm a med student who is interested in orthopedic surgery and thats my main reason for being on this site. Next to that I was insecure about my height and thought for awhile maybe LL was an option until I did more research about it. By the way you dont tell me what I can or cant, the only thing I'm doing is informing people about LL. I just give them some info and tips, I dont tell them what to do. If they still want the surgery knowing their legs will never be 100% then be my guest and go for it I dont care I just dont want my fellow forum members regretting their decision or having the surgery done but later on reading about the risks of the surgery.

[Pasta]

If you've read some of my other posts you'd know I'm a med student who is interested in orthopedic surgery and thats my main reason for being on this site. Next to that I was insecure about my height and thought for awhile maybe LL was an option until I did more research about it. By the way you don't tell me what I can or cant, the only thing I'm doing is informing people about LL. I just give them some info and tips, I don't tell them what to do. If they still want the surgery knowing their legs will never be 100% then be my guest and go for it I don't care I just don't want my fellow forum members regretting their decision or having the surgery done but later on reading about the risks of the surgery.

Buddy, what you are doing is discouraging people who may have been happy after having this surgery, by spreading lies with no factual evidence.
Gonna be honest, that's kind of funny, you took one man's experience who did it in 2007, and basically generalized it to all lengthening surgeries out there, excluding important variants like age, femurs or tibia's, lengthening amount, flexibility, strength as well as doctors, methods and rehabilitation.
Not only i'm sure you can be 100%, i'm sure you can be 300%, and inventing stuff like "your legs are gonna be 10 years older" is a 100% lie, because not only you have never done this surgery, there isn't one evidence that supports that ridiculous statement.

Lastly, you gotta do something about your ***ty personality buddy, the fact that someone has a different opinion than your's, doesn't mean he is delusional or stupid, fix your attitude brother. Thanks.

[Montreal172]

Gotta say really enjoyed your diary from first time you had that surgeon that had a bunch of
drama and then you took a leap of faith and did it in China. Me by saying that in 13 years there has been medical advances through stryde in precise is sure for comfort but other factors as well, lower risk of fat embolism for once. But if you’re able to do it more comfortably affects your psyche and training regimen. Risk are still there but not as much as 13 years ago. Plus the guy who started this thread analyzed 1 diary 13 years ago, without consider of age, physical aptitude, method, gender, weight, and so on. All this metadata is relevant, to go on so many tangents just by one diary is a stretch IMO.

Cheers.

[Tartar]

Buddy, what you are doing is discouraging people who may have been happy after having this surgery, by spreading lies with no factual evidence.
Gonna be honest, that's kind of funny, you took one man's experience who did it in 2007, and basically generalized it to all lengthening surgeries out there, excluding important variants like age, femurs or tibia's, lengthening amount, flexibility, strength as well as doctors, methods and rehabilitation.
Not only i'm sure you can be 100%, i'm sure you can be 300%, and inventing stuff like "your legs are gonna be 10 years older" is a 100% lie, because not only you have never done this surgery, there isn't one evidence that supports that ridiculous statement.

Lastly, you gotta do something about your ***ty personality buddy, the fact that someone has a different opinion than your's, doesn't mean he is delusional or stupid, fix your attitude brother. Thanks.

He's always doing so, he just wants attention or something similar, leave him alone.

[Medium Drink Of Water]

Gotta say really enjoyed your diary from first time you had that surgeon that had a bunch of
drama and then you took a leap of faith and did it in China. Me by saying that in 13 years there has been medical advances through stryde in precise is sure for comfort but other factors as well, lower risk of fat embolism for once. But if you’re able to do it more comfortably affects your psyche and training regimen. Risk are still there but not as much as 13 years ago. Plus the guy who started this thread analyzed 1 diary 13 years ago, without consider of age, physical aptitude, method, gender, weight, and so on. All this metadata is relevant, to go on so many tangents just by one diary is a stretch IMO.

Cheers.

Relevant but how relevant?  The guy he was talking about did it at age 25 in good physical shape, 5'7 135 lbs.  Not a P90X level athlete but could do the original Power 90.  A former child gymnast with excellent calf flexibility.

The improved mobility and comfort from STRYDE leads to an improved training regimen, sure, but only during distraction.  Once the bulky frames are off, what's the long term outcome?  The same.  You're just getting to the same place a little faster.

Too many people on here think that some kind of magic has happened, and that STRYDE with its incremental improvement over past technology solves every problem.  This is how you get @Athens with his severe ballerina foot asking how screwed he is in the general forum because he needs to be able to go back to a physical job in a few months.

Don't get false hopes.  Take this seriously.  I'm not saying don't do it, but know that height is a cruel god to serve before you make that deal at its altar.  It seems more worth it to a young man looking to establish his place in society than it ends up being later on.

[Polvorón]

If you've read some of my other posts you'd know I'm a med student who is interested in orthopedic surgery and thats my main reason for being on this site. Next to that I was insecure about my height and thought for awhile maybe LL was an option until I did more research about it. By the way you dont tell me what I can or cant, the only thing I'm doing is informing people about LL. I just give them some info and tips, I dont tell them what to do. If they still want the surgery knowing their legs will never be 100% then be my guest and go for it I dont care I just dont want my fellow forum members regretting their decision or having the surgery done but later on reading about the risks of the surgery.

I am sorry, I don't trust you.

[V]

I am sorry, I don't trust you.

Thats your choice I guess?

[ru]

Relevant but how relevant?  The guy he was talking about did it at age 25 in good physical shape, 5'7 135 lbs.  Not a P90X level athlete but could do the original Power 90.  A former child gymnast with excellent calf flexibility.

The improved mobility and comfort from STRYDE leads to an improved training regimen, sure, but only during distraction.  Once the bulky frames are off, what's the long term outcome?  The same.  You're just getting to the same place a little faster.

Too many people on here think that some kind of magic has happened, and that STRYDE with its incremental improvement over past technology solves every problem.  This is how you get @Athens with his severe ballerina foot asking how screwed he is in the general forum because he needs to be able to go back to a physical job in a few months.

Don't get false hopes.  Take this seriously.  I'm not saying don't do it, but know that height is a cruel god to serve before you make that deal at its altar.  It seems more worth it to a young man looking to establish his place in society than it ends up being later on.

difference:

with internal nail you can do femur lengthening. all docs today prefer femur lengthening for good reason. it has more muscle mass, recovers faster has lesser contracture issues. with old frames you couldnt do femurs even if you wanted to. maybe all surgeons wanted to femurs all along but technology did not allow them then

tibias lengthening means 2 major limitations: nail through the knee, tight ankles (ballerina foot).

and for some reason tibia patients who did frames in the past have had too much deformity problem. x legs mainly. the old forum indian docs specialty was to give x legs to patients (the ones who had deals with forums). this doesnt seem to be a problem with femurs, I dont know why. btw Medium Drink of Water, do you have your x rays to see alignment?

there are exceptions however. see this dr D femurs Patient video running at 2 minutes 30 sec:


he has inwards knees and I have no idea how he wont develop issues later on.

biomechanically maybe we are yet to hear more updates about impact of femur lengthening in a few years of time.

[V]

difference:

with internal nail you can do femur lengthening. all docs today prefer femur lengthening for good reason. it has more muscle mass, recovers faster has lesser contracture issues. with old frames you couldnt do femurs even if you wanted to. maybe all surgeons wanted to femurs all along but technology did not allow them then

tibias lengthening means 2 major limitations: nail through the knee, tight ankles (ballerina foot).

and for some reason tibia patients who did frames in the past have had too much deformity problem. x legs mainly. the old forum indian docs specialty was to give x legs to patients (the ones who had deals with forums). this doesnt seem to be a problem with femurs, I dont know why. btw Medium Drink of Water, do you have your x rays to see alignment?

there are exceptions however. see this dr D femurs Patient video running at 2 minutes 30 sec:


he has inwards knees and I have no idea how he wont develop issues later on.

biomechanically maybe we are yet to hear more updates about impact of femur lengthening in a few years of time.

Thanks for sharing!

[Medium Drink Of Water]

difference:

with internal nail you can do femur lengthening. all docs today prefer femur lengthening for good reason. it has more muscle mass, recovers faster has lesser contracture issues. with old frames you couldnt do femurs even if you wanted to. maybe all surgeons wanted to femurs all along but technology did not allow them then

2007 is not ancient history. Little has changed in LL since then.  Internal nails have existed for a long time; even way before I got the surgery done Guichet, Paley, Betz, and others offered them.  And doctors could and did do femurs with external frames, and it even still happens today in poor countries where femurs need to be lengthened but internals aren't available.

[ru]

2007 is not ancient history. Little has changed in LL since then.  Internal nails have existed for a long time; even way before I got the surgery done Guichet, Paley, Betz, and others offered them.  And doctors could and did do femurs with external frames, and it even still happens today in poor countries where femurs need to be lengthened but internals aren't available.

your right. I guess my point was that femurs patients have generally complained less about issues.  new gen nails have made the process of femur lengthening easier and more tolerable but probably not changed long term outcome of femur lengthening itself.

my thought was that because tibias is a more difficult surgery with the fibula and all that it has led to more cases of misalignment. femurs less so.

any way there is so less data about all of this. cant say much really. it seems like femur lengthening is better than tibia lengthening based on doctor recommendation (even though tibias is more money to doctors with same method)

[ghkid2019]

3 inches on Tibias is insane. American Cosmetic Leg Lengthening surgeons won't even dare permit this length. Do not use medium drink of water's anecdote as a generalization for anything.

And the surgery has improved. Watch Paley's interview with cyborg4life. He talks about how many surgeons have fixed the tibia and fibula in an incorrect manner and even after distraction and consolidation and removal of nails/fixators, it can cause arthritis and hip problems in the far future. The surgery technique has changed. It does actually matter how they do it. Just because Medium drink of water did an unsafe amount that wouldn't be recommended by any western doctor now and complains about his pains and problems now doesn't mean anything.

But I do agree, you will not fully get back to 100%, simply because your biomechanics have changed fundamentally with a different leg bones ratios and whatnot.

[Kogi314]

I think this post is a little be sarcastic and extreme in a way, if you're a med student you should know that one person's experience shouldn't conclude the whole LL.
That being said, don't be too optimistic about the surgery as well. It's not really dangerous if you find the right doctor but it is breaking both of your legs regardless, and physical therapy is very important, more importantly, the stretching before and after the surgery, who has really kept up with stretching after cll? I know for a fact medium drink of water hasn't as he has answered this question in a forum.

Don't get me wrong, Medium Drink of Water is one of the most active members in this forum period, he has given some quality suggestions to people, all credits to him for that.

He did 7cm in Tibias, its a lot but it happens more than you think. Look at the Korean Dr Lee's website and you can find a bunch. He has also had experience with 8000 patients, not all cll but I would say most of them are. He has also shown some videos of patients who have had this for some time, and yes, of course, he would only say the good things about the surgery but try doing research within the 8000 patients instead of just one. We would love to see it, for real, I'm thinking about doing CLL in Korea, and on tibia 5.5cm. Out of the thousands of people who did it in Korea, less than 10 diaries on this forum regarding what its like, and what it's like after with Dr lee, it must be because of the language barrier, if you are korean or understand Korean, please try to find someone from Korea who has done this with Dr lee. 

The real annoying thing about CLL is the lack of research from legit researchers, but what can you do?  If i was a med student, id probably come up with a proper research report but that's just me.

[llendpoint]

Out of the thousands of people who did it in Korea, less than 10 diaries on this forum regarding what its like, and what it's like after with Dr lee, it must be because of the language barrier, if you are korean or understand Korean, please try to find someone from Korea who has done this with Dr lee. 

Here are thank you letters from patients of Dr Lee

https://drdonghoon.co.kr/%ec%a0%84%ed%9b%84%ec%82%ac%ec%a7%84-%ed%9b%84%ea%b8%b0-%ec%98%88%ec%95%bd/thanks-letters/

If you find some typed letters, you can use google translator.

[jlk]

my guess is he's not very athletic to begin with. i was an athlete before and have lifted HEAVY weights all my life. when i recovered enough (after LL surgery) I hit the gym everyday to the extent where I would pass out at home afterwards....that's when things started to get really good. the recovery rate increased exponentially with how hard I lifted weights.

first i could only do machines at the gym then went on to compound exercises like squats, deadlifts, bench and military after 2 months. I'm stronger now than before the surgery and will continue to improve. the original post is nonsense.

do the LL surgery. achieve your dreams and work out like you've never done before. you'll be great.

[TheDream]

my guess is he's not very athletic to begin with. i was an athlete before and have lifted HEAVY weights all my life. when i recovered enough (after LL surgery) I hit the gym everyday to the extent where I would pass out at home afterwards....that's when things started to get really good. the recovery rate increased exponentially with how hard I lifted weights.

first i could only do machines at the gym then went on to compound exercises like squats, deadlifts, bench and military after 2 months. I'm stronger now than before the surgery and will continue to improve. the original post is nonsense.

do the LL surgery. achieve your dreams and work out like you've never done before. you'll be great.

Be careful with this. Your center or gravity changes from lengthening a segment (tibia or femurs).

Depending on how much you lengthened etc. the strain on your knees etc. may become too big if you squat more than your own body weight.