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[BelowTheMean]

I'm sure you guys have seen this study from back in 2006:
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=895442


Running the numbers on myself compared to a 5'11.5" guy making $62.5K a year:
-Before my surgery I would need to be making $227.6K a year to be considered equivalent. This is not doable for a lot of people, which is why most guys around my starting height have a disadvantage in dating.
-After my surgery, my annual income now only needs to be $104.5K to be considered equivalent, which is much easier to attain.

Of course, the fact that it says 5'11.5" is the average height in the dating pool (esp. in 2006) means that all the guys are likely exaggerating their height by 2 inches. If we assume the true average guy is 5'9.5" and everyone is exaggerating their height by 2" on the dating site:
-Before my surgery I would need to make $170K/year to be equivalent to the 5'9.5" guy claiming to be 5'11.5" online.
-After my surgery I would be just over 5'9.5" and could claim to be that 5'11.5" guy, so I would only need to make $60K/year!

Either way, if you look at these numbers then you can see why the best return on an $80K-$100K surgery is in the arena of dating, especially if you can get close to the average height. These numbers are from 2006 as well, so they've probably inflated even more 15 years later. It's funny (in a sad way) that once you're tall enough you can be unemployed and still get more messages and responses from girls than most short guys. It also shows that the biggest gap is between 5'8" and 5'10" (at least in the US) which just goes to show guys who are 5'10" (or can pass as 5'10") really aren't that disadvantaged in dating.

It also reminds me of this old YT video I saw with this girl picking a 6'2" gym teacher over a 5'5" doctor. Both were holding signs with their height and income too. The doctor was shown as making $200K a year and the gym teacher was making $35K per year, but I guess it wasn't enough to make up for the height difference. (Based on this study the doctor would need to make nearly $230K more per year to be considered equivalent.) Of course, there are some girls for whom no amount of money would persuade her to date a short guy, which is why you have guys worth over $100M getting this surgery as well.

Obviously as a short guy if you put yourself out there enough, you can still beat the odds and get a ton of girls, but I don't think anyone can argue that you wouldn't have a much easier time (and deal with fewer rejections) as a taller guy!

Another thing this corresponds with is the sentiment of many of the guys on here saying that they don't need to become tall, they just don't want to be short. It seems like the benefit of being tall vs being average is much smaller than the benefit of being average vs being short (at least in dating.)

[Bantem]

Not to mention the fact that taller men also earn more money, are more likely to get hired, and more likely to get a promotion. All these things are significant disadvantage to short men.

[10cmOnTibiaOrGTFO]

bull . most women dont want a man thats 6'10 lmao. thats too tall.

[tallmen]

bull . most women dont want a man thats 6'10 lmao. thats too tall.

too short, too tall, too average, not tall enough.

[tallmen]

by the way 5'10 guy can just but the lift and avoid making that much money :p

[Worzezterlire]

As someone 5’9” and making 1%er money (200+k)  in my early 20s, I can say that neither my income has helped me nor has my height really hurt me.  Only once has a girl been interested in me after she heard where I worked, and only one woman has ever called me short to my face (and she was not attractive).  Hence I personally am not getting LL due to dating prospects in the first place.

If I were 5’6” it might be a different story. 

[tallmen]

As someone 5’9” and making 1%er money (200+k)  in my early 20s, I can say that neither my income has helped me nor has my height really hurt me.  Only once has a girl been interested in me after she heard where I worked, and only one woman has ever called me short to my face (and she was not attractive).  Hence I personally am not getting LL due to dating prospects in the first place.

If I were 5’6” it might be a different story.

I am that different story but I am also not doing it for dating prospects I just hate myself and I want to love myself and feel good in my body that's the main purpose. If I had to choose between getting LL or 100 million dollar and gigi hadid as my girlfriend then I'll choose LL in an instant. It doesn't matter how much money you have or how hot your gf is if you can't love yourself or feel comfortable in your own body.

[Medium Drink Of Water]

As someone 5’9” and making 1%er money (200+k)  in my early 20s, I can say that neither my income has helped me nor has my height really hurt me.  Only once has a girl been interested in me after she heard where I worked, and only one woman has ever called me short to my face (and she was not attractive).  Hence I personally am not getting LL due to dating prospects in the first place.

If I were 5’6” it might be a different story.

One of the reasons I went for that extra inch on tibias instead of being conservative.

[Worzezterlire]

I am that different story but I am also not doing it for dating prospects I just hate myself and I want to love myself and feel good in my body that's the main purpose. If I had to choose between getting LL or 100 million dollar and gigi hadid as my girlfriend then I'll choose LL in an instant. It doesn't matter how much money you have or how hot your gf is if you can't love yourself or feel comfortable in your own body.

Life at 5’9” will really be pretty great, honestly, so don’t let me discourage you or make you feel “short” at that height.  Nobody will ever call you short at that height except for some extremely judgemental women and insecure tall men.  I too have height neurosis despite being normal sized, but that’s because of deeper issues (my whole family is 6’1+ and close family have instilled a neurosis in me from a young age about height).  I’m doing LL for the same reason as you, and I genuinely wish you the best of luck and happier days ahead.

[BelowTheMean]

Life at 5’9” will really be pretty great, honestly, so don’t let me discourage you or make you feel “short” at that height.  Nobody will ever call you short at that height except for some extremely judgemental women and insecure tall men.  I too have height neurosis despite being normal sized, but that’s because of deeper issues (my whole family is 6’1+ and close family have instilled a neurosis in me from a young age about height).  I’m doing LL for the same reason as you, and I genuinely wish you the best of luck and happier days ahead.

I agree with your sentiment. I think 5'9" is fine for pretty much everything, but I can see how your personal experiences could cause you to have height dysphoria. I definitely don't feel tall by any means at 177cm, but I don't feel short anymore either. I'm taller than all but two of my cousins now after LL, so no more height neurosis comparing myself to my family.

[10cmOnTibiaOrGTFO]

at 5'7 you can maybe become a hot tranny still 

[Sambollio]

These numbers seem really suspicious, I forget where I saw it but I believe the most attractive height for men generally is between 6’0 and 6’4. I think exceeding 6’5 can be too much for a lot of women. I could be wrong and if anyone disagrees lmk! There definitely is a correlation here but this seems off... very interesting post though, thanks for sharing!

[Astronomy]

It depends on which country you live.In China,if u r under 160cm as a male,you will never achieve equalty in dating even though u r a handsome billionare,and in most cases a 185cm tall beggar can beat ya.

[Worzezterlire]

These numbers seem really suspicious, I forget where I saw it but I believe the most attractive height for men generally is between 6’0 and 6’4. I think exceeding 6’5 can be too much for a lot of women. I could be wrong and if anyone disagrees lmk! There definitely is a correlation here but this seems off... very interesting post though, thanks for sharing!

I’d suspect that once you’re 6’2” it entirely stops mattering.  I’d even wager that’s the case after 6’0” in most countries, excluding women with height fetishes, which aren’t a huge proportion anyways.  Women regularly think that 5’10 men are 6’0 and that 6’1 men are 6’4.

[Serilium]

Based on this study then, it appears 5' 10 and up is effectively the point where income doesn't even matter anymore for dating ($24k income needed around the 100k point is essentially negligible in a first world country, don't roast me though I understand many people have it harder and 24k salary boost is alot, but i basically don't see too much of a difference between 90k and 110k since both are already pretty darn good salaries and the quality of life is identical mostly, my opinion though, of course in china or india 24k boost is much much bigger [even life changing in most situations] so i am talking about USA only) and desirability truly essentially no longer factors money.

Which means this is perfect for a 5'10 BelowTheMean post-LL, confirmation bias successful. (Not bias anymore, it's a published study!)

Congratulations lmfao

[Dirona]

Beyond a certain income, say 500k, the role of income in dating is zilch.. I do not like these kind of studies by these psychologists anyway as it will have a lot of deviations..Sometimes, I feel people like Dan Ariely or Gladwell etc are given way too much importance ..They are not geniuses..They just do some study based on some cohort and publish them..What if there are other factors in a different cohort etc? I like the scientific method better where a single deviation is enough to prove the theory wrong..