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Author Topic: How much height could a man possibly stunt with the worst diet and lifestyle?  (Read 3363 times)

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YourSpaceBoyfriend

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Who said I did?

I didn't mean being slightly sleepy lol

don't forget he is Batman

Idk if his stories and theories are more pathetic or entertaining
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BruceWayne

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I didn't mean being slightly sleepy lol

Idk if his stories and theories are more pathetic or entertaining

Which of my theories is either pathetic or entertaining?
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"My anger outweighs my guilt."

CaptainAmerica

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Me and my best friend both 5’3 at 13

- He starts smoking weed every day
- He starts drinking every weekend
- Single mom so he mostly eats McDonalds
- Doesn’t eat lunch at school or play any sports
- High stress lifestyle, gets put on probation and nearly goes to juvie for smokingweed

Guess what, he still grew to 5’11 and I only grew to 5’4. Despite doing the exact opposite of everything.

Guess why.

His mom is 5’7 and mine is 5’. My maternal grandfather is probably like 5'2 and his is 6'.

I also have a friend who's maybe 5'1 even though his dad is 5'8. Guess why? His mom is probably 4'9 at most.

I don't think it's that uncommon to inherit height completely from your mother. I see a lot of guys 4 inches or so taller than their mom and that's it.
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myloginacct

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Me and my best friend both 5’3 at 13

- He starts smoking weed every day
- He starts drinking every weekend
- Single mom so he mostly eats McDonalds
- Doesn’t eat lunch at school or play any sports
- High stress lifestyle, gets put on probation and nearly goes to juvie for smokingweed

Guess what, he still grew to 5’11 and I only grew to 5’4. Despite doing the exact opposite of everything.

Guess why.

His mom is 5’7 and mine is 5’. My maternal grandfather is probably like 5'2 and his is 6'.

I also have a friend who's maybe 5'1 even though his dad is 5'8. Guess why? His mom is probably 4'9 at most.

I don't think it's that uncommon to inherit height completely from your mother. I see a lot of guys 4 inches or so taller than their mom and that's it.

It's a polygenic trait so it's hard to gauge anything accurately, but yeah, check the thread where members listed their parents and their heights. The final height was almost a mean between the father and the mother for a lot of people. However, I also have the impression you get more height from your mother. Taller mothers with a father of the same height generally had taller sons than themselves. Whereas even people with tall fathers turned out fairly shorter than their own if their mother was short, even when the difference was about the same. 170cm father + mother = taller sons than 180cm father and 160cm mother.
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myloginacct

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Me and my best friend both 5’3 at 13

- He starts smoking weed every day
- He starts drinking every weekend
- Single mom so he mostly eats McDonalds
- Doesn’t eat lunch at school or play any sports
- High stress lifestyle, gets put on probation and nearly goes to juvie for smokingweed

Guess what, he still grew to 5’11 and I only grew to 5’4. Despite doing the exact opposite of everything.

Guess why.

His mom is 5’7 and mine is 5’. My maternal grandfather is probably like 5'2 and his is 6'.

I also have a friend who's maybe 5'1 even though his dad is 5'8. Guess why? His mom is probably 4'9 at most.

I don't think it's that uncommon to inherit height completely from your mother. I see a lot of guys 4 inches or so taller than their mom and that's it.

Do you know how tall his father is? Is he shorter or taller than his father?

He may have honestly lost height due to his high stress lifestyle. I'm not arguing a lot, but a bit. Like even people who may have some naturally healthier functioning organs (compared to the general populace) will still have them be affected by stress. I don't exactly like comparing "taller" to "healthier", but it was the analogy I could think of.

I do think this subject deserves more scrutiny from science, even if I agree with Android that there's no point lamenting or ruminating about it after you've already grown.
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CaptainAmerica

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Do you know how tall his father is? Is he shorter or taller than his father?

He may have honestly lost height due to his high stress lifestyle. I'm not arguing a lot, but a bit. Like even people who may have some naturally healthier functioning organs (compared to the general populace) will still have them be affected by stress. I don't exactly like comparing "taller" to "healthier", but it was the analogy I could think of.

I do think this subject deserves more scrutiny from science, even if I agree with Android that there's no point lamenting or ruminating about it after you've already grown.

His dad is shorter than his mom, probably 5'6
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fivefive

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3 to 8cm
« Reply #68 on: February 11, 2018, 10:28:14 PM »

Yes, nutrition and upbringing do influence height significantly. I'm really surprised nobody has mentioned the indisputable height difference between two nations sharing the same genetic pool, but vastly different lifestyles - South Korea and North Korea. Here's what research shows:

North Korean men are, on average, between 3 - 8cm (1.2 - 3.1in) shorter than their South Korean counterparts
The height gap is approximately 4cm (1.6in) among pre-school boys and 3cm (1.2in) among pre-school girls

Martin Bloem is head of nutrition at the World Food Programme, which has been providing food aid to North Korea since 1995. He says poor diet in the early years of life leads to stunted growth.

"Food and what happens in the first two years of life is actually critical for people's height later"

In the 1990s North Korea suffered a terrible famine. Today, according to the World Food Programme, "one in every three children remains chronically malnourished or 'stunted', meaning they are too short for their age".


Also, thanks to better nutrition, each generation tends to be taller then the previous one. From from SciAm:

modern humans are taller than those from the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries. In fact, over the last 150 years the average height of people in industrialized nations has increased approximately 10 centimeters (about four inches).

[...] conditions of poor nutrition are well correlated to smaller stature. For example, the heights of all classes of people, from factory workers to the rich, increased as food quality, production and distribution became more reliable [...] the heights of vagrant London boys declined from 1780 to1800 and then rose three inches in just 30 years--an increase that paralleled improving conditions for the poor.


Quoting from another study (which was brought up on this forum before, BTW) that followed height trends worldwide over the past 100 years:


Although height is one of the most heritable human traits (Fisher, 1919; Lettre, 2011), cross-population differences are believed to be related to non-genetic, environmental factors. Of these, foetal growth (itself related to maternal size, nutrition and environmental exposures), and nutrition and infections during childhood and adolescence are particularly important determinants of height during adulthood (Cole, 2000; Silventoinen et al., 2000; Dubois et al., 2012; Haeffner et al., 2002; Sørensen et al., 1999; Victora et al., 2008; Eveleth and Tanner, 1990; Tanner, 1962; Tanner, 1992; Bogin, 2013).


Anecdotally, my cousins are taller than me by about 1", and they're both female. Their mother is 5'3", 2" taller than mine, and their father is 5'7", just as tall as mine. Keep in mind that Caucasian women are on the average 4-5" shorter than men, and that statistic is found in my country too. So yes, my mom was 2" shorter than their mom, but my female cousins aren't 2-3" shorter than me; they're 1" taller. However, my cousins were *very* well-fed as children while I was not (see the end of my post).

There's nothing people who were born blind can do to make themselves see (as of yet).

Yes there is - brain-computer interfaces coupled with HD cameras can already give sight to the blind.

There's nothing people who were born with chronic, inherited genetic diseases can do to cure themselves.

Gene therapy can already cure certain genetic diseases. CRISPR technology is rapidly advancing towards more therapeutic applications and my friend and Ligandal CEO Andrew Watson has just announced this week a breakthrough method of delivering genetic therapies enabled by CRIPSR, TALEN, mRNA, siRNA, DNA using nanoparticles.

We live in extraordinary times. By the way, those who haven't looked into CRISPR yet, watch this:

Genetic Engineering Will Change Everything Forever – CRISPR

I don't think nutrition was a factor for anyone in this forum.

I grew up in a country with food rationing and my family forced me to fast (no protein) for about half of the year until I was over 20 and my growth plates had fused. My mother is 5'1" and my father is 5'7" - while the parents of my two female cousins are 5'3" (their mom, my sister's dad) and 5'7" (their dad, same height as my father). Despite women being on the average 4-5" shorter than men in my country, my cousins are 1" taller than me. My cousing were very well fed though (they were born after food rationing ceased, and their parents weren't religiously indoctrinated). How much of that particular case is genetic and how much is malnutrition we'll never know, but on a large population scale, it's clear that early age nutrition and environmental factors do impact height.
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myloginacct

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Re: 3 to 8cm
« Reply #69 on: February 11, 2018, 11:16:03 PM »

Yes, nutrition and upbringing do influence height significantly. I'm really surprised nobody has mentioned the indisputable height difference between two nations sharing the same genetic pool, but vastly different lifestyles - South Korea and North Korea. Here's what research shows:

North Korean men are, on average, between 3 - 8cm (1.2 - 3.1in) shorter than their South Korean counterparts
The height gap is approximately 4cm (1.6in) among pre-school boys and 3cm (1.2in) among pre-school girls

Martin Bloem is head of nutrition at the World Food Programme, which has been providing food aid to North Korea since 1995. He says poor diet in the early years of life leads to stunted growth.

"Food and what happens in the first two years of life is actually critical for people's height later"

In the 1990s North Korea suffered a terrible famine. Today, according to the World Food Programme, "one in every three children remains chronically malnourished or 'stunted', meaning they are too short for their age".


Also, thanks to better nutrition, each generation tends to be taller then the previous one. From from SciAm:

modern humans are taller than those from the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries. In fact, over the last 150 years the average height of people in industrialized nations has increased approximately 10 centimeters (about four inches).

[...] conditions of poor nutrition are well correlated to smaller stature. For example, the heights of all classes of people, from factory workers to the rich, increased as food quality, production and distribution became more reliable [...] the heights of vagrant London boys declined from 1780 to1800 and then rose three inches in just 30 years--an increase that paralleled improving conditions for the poor.


Quoting from another study (which was brought up on this forum before, BTW) that followed height trends worldwide over the past 100 years:


Although height is one of the most heritable human traits (Fisher, 1919; Lettre, 2011), cross-population differences are believed to be related to non-genetic, environmental factors. Of these, foetal growth (itself related to maternal size, nutrition and environmental exposures), and nutrition and infections during childhood and adolescence are particularly important determinants of height during adulthood (Cole, 2000; Silventoinen et al., 2000; Dubois et al., 2012; Haeffner et al., 2002; Sørensen et al., 1999; Victora et al., 2008; Eveleth and Tanner, 1990; Tanner, 1962; Tanner, 1992; Bogin, 2013).


Anecdotally, my cousins are taller than me by about 1", and they're both female. Their mother is 5'3", 2" taller than mine, and their father is 5'7", just as tall as mine. Keep in mind that Caucasian women are on the average 4-5" shorter than men, and that statistic is found in my country too. So yes, my mom was 2" shorter than their mom, but my female cousins aren't 2-3" shorter than me; they're 1" taller. However, my cousins were *very* well-fed as children while I was not (see the end of my post).

Yes there is - brain-computer interfaces coupled with HD cameras can already give sight to the blind.

Gene therapy can already cure certain genetic diseases. CRISPR technology is rapidly advancing towards more therapeutic applications and my friend and Ligandal CEO Andrew Watson has just announced this week a breakthrough method of delivering genetic therapies enabled by CRIPSR, TALEN, mRNA, siRNA, DNA using nanoparticles.

We live in extraordinary times. By the way, those who haven't looked into CRISPR yet, watch this:

Genetic Engineering Will Change Everything Forever – CRISPR

I grew up in a country with food rationing and my family forced me to fast (no protein) for about half of the year until I was over 20 and my growth plates had fused. My mother is 5'1" and my father is 5'7" - while the parents of my two female cousins are 5'3" (their mom, my sister's dad) and 5'7" (their dad, same height as my father). Despite women being on the average 4-5" shorter than men in my country, my cousins are 1" taller than me. My cousing were very well fed though (they were born after food rationing ceased, and their parents weren't religiously indoctrinated). How much of that particular case is genetic and how much is malnutrition we'll never know, but on a large population scale, it's clear that early age nutrition and environmental factors do impact height.

Thanks for the links. We do live in exciting times.

Good thing is that the height increase due to nutrition seems to have plateaued in most developed nations, so we don't need to worry about falling off too much.

I'll go over other stuff in your post later.
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CaptainAmerica

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So literally starving, living under dictator, high stress lifestyle and fearing execution of your entire family up to 2 relatives removed can at maximum stunt height by 1.5 inches? Lol.

This is also ignoring the fact that in more modern societies women are the keepers of marriage and children, and become choosier causing reproductive rates to go down.

I wouldn’t be surprised if 0.5 inch of that height difference could be attributed to independent South Korean women choosing to marry taller men than they would’ve been able to bargain for without their own financial freedom. In North Korea, women must marry whoever they can just to be provided for and survive.

I mean take note of the fact that women now openly want to only date and fk 6ft+ men. That obviously has some influence on the gene pool. Also couple the fact with how likely suicide is for short men, especially men under 5’5.

I don’t think human height is done increasing, and I genuinely believe it’s greatly influenced by sxxual selection.
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myloginacct

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So literally starving, living under dictator, high stress lifestyle and fearing execution of your entire family up to 2 relatives removed can at maximum stunt height by 1.5 inches? Lol.

This is also ignoring the fact that in more modern societies women are the keepers of marriage and children, and become choosier causing reproductive rates to go down.

I wouldn’t be surprised if 0.5 inch of that height difference could be attributed to independent South Korean women choosing to marry taller men than they would’ve been able to bargain for without their own financial freedom.

I mean take note of the fact that women now openly want to only date and fk 6ft+ men. That obviously has some influence on the gene pool. Also couple the fact with how likely suicide is for short men, especially men under 5’5.

I don’t think human height is done increasing, and I genuinely believe it’s greatly influenced by sxxual selection.

You're right too, but let's call it "significantly increasing in a couple of generations".

It'll probably keep increasing in societies like the Netherlands where people have selected, and still select for height, for ages.

Still, it's weird to think that in the distant enough future, men could average over 2 meters tall in certain societies. I wonder how our biology would handle that. Tall men already live less than shorter men.
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CaptainAmerica

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Also, on the topic of starvation and nutrition stunting growth, one of the poorest nations in Europe, Montenegro, actually has some of the tallest men in Europe, averaging 6ft for males. They grow to this height with a 22% unemployment rate and a GDP per capita of like $7,000 lol. But genetically the people from that Balkan-mountain area are just very tall.
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IwannaBeTaller

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The height difference in cases like North Korea vs. South Korea doesn't come to exist within only one stunted generation, with epigenetics, height can decrease over several generations in a timespan where famine and bad living conditions take place. So if there is a 4 inch difference between those two countries, it doesn't translate to one individual person being stunted of 4 inches of potential growth (as far as I understood it).

This is also ignoring the fact that in more modern societies women are the keepers of marriage and children, and become choosier causing reproductive rates to go down.

I wouldn’t be surprised if 0.5 inch of that height difference could be attributed to independent South Korean women choosing to marry taller men than they would’ve been able to bargain for without their own financial freedom. In North Korea, women must marry whoever they can just to be provided for and survive.

It's true that women are not forced to marry or mate with any guy simply for provider qualities. But is that really what a guy would want, being chosen only because of his potential to provide money and resources? This principle also goes both ways, since men are not forced to have a wife and children, they can equally choose to keep or not keep up a marriage, so ugly or unattractive women should also have it harder to find a satisfied relationship. Western men can also go to a poor country like Thailand and get a pretty young woman to commit to them, which, to my knowledge, was not as easy 200-300 years ago.

In reality, I'm not sure it becomes harder for short(er) men in modern countries. Since it's no longer necessary to marry and get children at a young age, people are free to experiment what they really want and find their niche, and a place where they are accepted for what they are by a partner. That's my theory at least.
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Knik

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Be suspicious about official average height. Because officially south korean average is 173-4 cm while North Korean average is about 166 (but I'm not sure it's official, North Korean authorities have no interest to put this official so it could be american studies).
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myloginacct

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Yes, I'd rather see a comparison between heights of Western vs Eastern Germans and Civil-War Finns vs Post-WW2 Finns.

SK vs NK isn't very reliable.
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Knik

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Or you can make a comparison between Romania / Moldova / Transnistria, but there is some ethnic groups like Gagauz
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LLprime2

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Answer to title: Less than 3cm. If you eat normal, you gain or lose no life changing heights.
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Height: 156 cm

ShortLivesMatter

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The height difference in cases like North Korea vs. South Korea doesn't come to exist within only one stunted generation, with epigenetics, height can decrease over several generations in a timespan where famine and bad living conditions take place. So if there is a 4 inch difference between those two countries, it doesn't translate to one individual person being stunted of 4 inches of potential growth (as far as I understood it).

It's true that women are not forced to marry or mate with any guy simply for provider qualities. But is that really what a guy would want, being chosen only because of his potential to provide money and resources? This principle also goes both ways, since men are not forced to have a wife and children, they can equally choose to keep or not keep up a marriage, so ugly or unattractive women should also have it harder to find a satisfied relationship. Western men can also go to a poor country like Thailand and get a pretty young woman to commit to them, which, to my knowledge, was not as easy 200-300 years ago.

In reality, I'm not sure it becomes harder for short(er) men in modern countries. Since it's no longer necessary to marry and get children at a young age, people are free to experiment what they really want and find their niche, and a place where they are accepted for what they are by a partner. That's my theory at least.

It is definitely harder for shorter men in modern countries. Why? It's simple, back in the olden days where women were relegated to the house for the most part and didn't/couldn't work, they placed a higher emphasis on picking a mate who can provide for them resource wise because they couldn't do it themselves. Nowadays in these countries where women work and no longer rely on men for resources, they can afford to pick the mates with better genes (heightwise) to pass onto their offspring.
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CaptainAmerica

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It is definitely harder for shorter men in modern countries. Why? It's simple, back in the olden days where women were relegated to the house for the most part and didn't/couldn't work, they placed a higher emphasis on picking a mate who can provide for them resource wise because they couldn't do it themselves. Nowadays in these countries where women work and no longer rely on men for resources, they can afford to pick the mates with better genes (heightwise) to pass onto their offspring.

Yep, I’m guessing a lot of the younger members here had more rural, maybe religious, parents who married young. If my parents would’ve went to college and my mother turned into a uppity sorority chick I can almost 100% guarantee that she wouldn’t have given my father the time of day.

When my parents got divorced my 5’5 father had absolutely 0 luck dating while my mom had no problems. In a bittersweet way he got lucky that they married young.
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IwannaBeTaller

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It is definitely harder for shorter men in modern countries. Why? It's simple, back in the olden days where women were relegated to the house for the most part and didn't/couldn't work, they placed a higher emphasis on picking a mate who can provide for them resource wise because they couldn't do it themselves. Nowadays in these countries where women work and no longer rely on men for resources, they can afford to pick the mates with better genes (heightwise) to pass onto their offspring.

It's like you didn't read my post at all, or didn't understand any of it.
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myloginacct

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If height genes are epigenetical in addition to being polygenic, then that's going to suck. I was hoping if I ever decided to have children I could rely on taller genes passed through the Y-DNA in my family, but I guess my height genes would pass information differently due to the epigenetic effect (i.e. I'm shorter so the same inherited genes from my father will perform shorter on my children).

Oh well, none of this will matter in 50 years.

And I also have to agree with IWannaBeTaller that it is probably easier for first-world males today if all they want is to get married and have children. There are millions of women all around the world willing to marry anyone from Western Europe, Australia, New Zealand or North America just for the citizenship and living standards, and the internet made it a streamlined process. Hypergamy and all. I'm not saying I agree with either party in this "transaction", but it is the reality.
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BruceWayne

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What's the point of all these useless statistics, geographics, analysis, even mentioned hypergamy, unemployment rate when in the end we're simply fked because we're short.
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IwannaBeTaller

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...says the guy who opened this very thread. LMAO.
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Body Builder

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Saying that our times are better than before because some women from third world countries who don't have money even for food would marry anyone (inclidung short men) just to survive is the most pathetic thing I read here.

If someone is ok to marry a woman who is with him only because otherwise she may starve and see him as a wallet, then this man should be ashamed of himself.
People stop being so pathetic and stop puting women so high only because we are not tall. No woman deserves to have everything paid and don't give you anything back (love, feelings etc) only because we are not tall and she is with us.
And after all, LL is here and all of us can chase the life they deserve without a permanent drawback like the lack of height.
So stop thinking so pathetically and do whatever you believe it will make you feel better with yourself and don't let anything put you down.
I always thought like that and I'll always do whatever it takes to feel completely ok with myself no matter how hard it may be (like another one LL)
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BruceWayne

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...says the guy who opened this very thread. LMAO.

Yeah, but this statistics and analysis have gone to far.

And we don't even get an answer yet, except the guy who just said 3 cm recently.

Btw I just read the previous comments, did you seriously think that it's ok for short men in modern countries just because they can offer survival to women and not because they feel sxxually worthy?

Answer to title: Less than 3cm. If you eat normal, you gain or lose no life changing heights.

Interesting. How did you come up with this seemingly arbitrary number (of less than 3 cm)?
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IwannaBeTaller

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Btw I just read the previous comments, did you seriously think that it's ok for short men in modern countries just because they can offer survival to women and not because they feel sxxually worthy?

Someone said that women can be choosier in modern Western countries because of their financial freedom, implying it's harder for short(er) men to find a mate under these conditions. I argued that the option to marry someone who wants you for your provider qualities is still there, just like in the "old times" when women didn't have the freedom to work and make money. Just by choosing a woman from a poorer country. It's one option for men, among many others.

Actually, an old friend of my mom married a woman from Africa who now lives with him in a richer country. From what I hear, they seem pretty happy together, so I surely won't be the one to judge them. Whatever works, right?  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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LLprime2

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Interesting. How did you come up with this seemingly arbitrary number (of less than 3 cm)?

I read it somewhere. But before that I made the logical conclusion myself.
Just look around. If food was such a denominator for height and growth you wouldn't see so many skinny unhealthy guys walking around, while having top nurished midgets.
You find so many big guys who don't take of their bodies at all.

Food doesn't determine the final height of a person. Puberty is just a random booster. It comes down to genetics. In my case I was already shorter than almost all kinds in kindergarten. I ate damn well all the time. Even a decade before puberty you can already see the who will be super short.

What does genetics do?
It controls your hormones. And hormones either make you tall, short, or gay in the womb (Yes, that is where you become already gay or not, but through your mother's hormones though). That is why you can grow taller with hormonal therapy, even though genetics decide which height you end up with, if it wasn't for external influenes on a hormonal level.

(External) hormones > genetics (controlls hormones) > puberty (again, genetics and hormones) > food. That is the order.
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BruceWayne

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Someone said that women can be choosier in modern Western countries because of their financial freedom, implying it's harder for short(er) men to find a mate under these conditions. I argued that the option to marry someone who wants you for your provider qualities is still there, just like in the "old times" when women didn't have the freedom to work and make money. Just by choosing a woman from a poorer country. It's one option for men, among many others.

Actually, an old friend of my mom married a woman from Africa who now lives with him in a richer country. From what I hear, they seem pretty happy together, so I surely won't be the one to judge them. Whatever works, right?  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

That's just about the most pathetic thing one can possibly hear in this universe.
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BruceWayne

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I read it somewhere. But before that I made the logical conclusion myself.
Just look around. If food was such a denominator for height and growth you wouldn't see so many skinny unhealthy guys walking around, while having top nurished midgets.
You find so many big guys who don't take of their bodies at all.

Food doesn't determine the final height of a person. Puberty is just a random booster. It comes down to genetics. In my case I was already shorter than almost all kinds in kindergarten. I ate damn well all the time. Even a decade before puberty you can already see the who will be super short.

What does genetics do?
It controls your hormones. And hormones either make you tall, short, or gay in the womb (Yes, that is where you become already gay or not, but through your mother's hormones though). That is why you can grow taller with hormonal therapy, even though genetics decide which height you end up with, if it wasn't for external influenes on a hormonal level.

(External) hormones > genetics (controlls hormones) > puberty (again, genetics and hormones) > food. That is the order.

If you got this "under 3cm" based on the stuffs you mentioned, then I have some bad news because I see no correlation whatsoever how they yield this "under 3cm"

Foods may not be significant if you don't starve. But depression and extreme sleep deprivation might.
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IwannaBeTaller

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That's just about the most pathetic thing one can possibly hear in this universe.

Who are you to judge anyone? You know nothing about these people's lives, do you? It seems that some people in this world seem happy with their lives, and you do not. Now this mail order bride thing would not be for me. But I would rather be happy and have someone call me pathetic than be unhappy and have no-one call me pathetic.
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Knik

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http://www.stylecraze.com/articles/calcium-help-you-grow-taller/#gref
what are your opinion about that ? according to that people that drink a lot of milk and eat a lot of meat will be taller while studies proved that vegetarian kids are not shorter than others.
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Hope Catagni-Pili (externals)

Knik

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I would like to know what do you mean by "stress". I guess it's depression, but how to know if you have been depressive.
From what I know I have always been happy, but in the same time many people considered me as "unhappy" because not much talkative, excessively shy and low self-confidence but I don't consider it as stress
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Hope Catagni-Pili (externals)
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