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Author Topic: What is the Long term effect of LL? Anyone know please answer. Thanks  (Read 50404 times)

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whysoserious

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Hey guy, im newbie here.
I want to ask what is the long term effect of LL. I mean in the future there must be an impact cause by LL(stretching our nerves,tissues,muscles,etc). Does anyone know about this? Like maybe premature arthritis or something

I really want to do LL but im a bit curious about what will happen in the future like 10-20years.

Thanks,
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Doflamingo

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Re: What is the Long term effect of LL? Anyone know please answer. Thanks
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2013, 11:55:39 AM »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intramedullary_rod

I've been doing some google and apparently every LL will or have some problems with their knee.
But then on the forums people say they're doing very fine...
It's a very good topic to discuss with.
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LLL

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Re: What is the Long term effect of LL? Anyone know please answer. Thanks
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2013, 12:00:37 PM »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intramedullary_rod

I've been doing some google and apparently every LL will or have some problems with their knee.
But then on the forums people say they're doing very fine...
It's a very good topic to discuss with.

The important thing to know is that there are very few (honest) LLers staying around posting about their experience years after they've finished it all. SDOW on this forum is among the exceptions. Maybe they'll all encounter more or less serious long-term problems eventually, but won't know it until a few years or more have passed. And then I doubt most of them would bother returning to these forums to tell about it.

Maybe Dr. Franz, the orthopedist surgeon here, can say something about it.
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Russianblues

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Re: What is the Long term effect of LL? Anyone know please answer. Thanks
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2013, 04:15:21 PM »

Franze already said 1/4 people will have permanent knee pain. Scared as fk because one of my knees hurts to move/lift and hasn't improved at all since surgery...
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KiloKAHN

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Re: What is the Long term effect of LL? Anyone know please answer. Thanks
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2013, 05:45:24 PM »

On this forum Dr. Birkholtz said tjat among those who get an intramedullary rod put in after lengthening, 50% of them will have permanent knee pain. You will also have to worry about other things, like getting compartment syndrome possibly, or developing arthritis - improper fixation of the fibula being one of the things that can cause it. Complications also potentially increase the more you lengthen.
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Surgery performed by Dr Mangal Parihar at Mangal Anand Center for Limb Lengthening & Reconstruction. http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=634.0
Pre-surgery height:  164 cm (Surgery on 6/25/2014)
Post-surgery height: 170 cm (Frames removed 6/29/2015)

Russianblues

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Re: What is the Long term effect of LL? Anyone know please answer. Thanks
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2013, 06:55:36 PM »

On this forum Dr. Birkholtz said tjat among those who get an intramedullary rod put in after lengthening, 50% of them will have permanent knee pain.

No he didn't. Don't correct me when your wrong and the source is two clicks away, it's not a good look.
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Muse

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Re: What is the Long term effect of LL? Anyone know please answer. Thanks
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2013, 07:11:49 PM »

No he didn't. Don't correct me when your wrong and the source is two clicks away, it's not a good look.

He wasn't trying to correct you, chill out.   

Whether it's 25% or 50%, the information is worth a second read for anyone interested in Limb Lengthening.

http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=137.0
« Last Edit: December 10, 2013, 07:15:14 PM by Dameon »
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KiloKAHN

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Re: What is the Long term effect of LL? Anyone know please answer. Thanks
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2013, 07:21:25 PM »

No he didn't. Don't correct me when your wrong and the source is two clicks away, it's not a good look.





I hadn't read your response, I was replying to the first post of the TC. Also, it's easy to see where the mix up happened with Dr. Birkholtz's quote "Apart from the reaming and potential infection risks, tibial nails have around a 50% chance of persistent knee pain. Only half of these patients improve when nails are removed." I didn't remember the second part of that response, just the 50% chance of persistent knee pain. Relax.

« Last Edit: December 10, 2013, 07:31:55 PM by Kilokahn »
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Surgery performed by Dr Mangal Parihar at Mangal Anand Center for Limb Lengthening & Reconstruction. http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=634.0
Pre-surgery height:  164 cm (Surgery on 6/25/2014)
Post-surgery height: 170 cm (Frames removed 6/29/2015)

Muse

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Re: What is the Long term effect of LL? Anyone know please answer. Thanks
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2013, 07:43:39 PM »

  Dr. Birkholtz's quote "Apart from the reaming and potential infection risks, tibial nails have around a 50% chance of persistent knee pain. Only half of these patients improve when nails are removed." I didn't remember the second part of that response, just the 50% chance of persistent knee pain. Relax.

I can see why that answer could be open for interpretation. It's best to ask Dr Birkholtz directly for clarification when it's something that's concerning enough.  Here's how I interpreted it.

There's a 50% Chance of persistent knee pain after the tibial nails are inserted.  Of those patients who have knee pain complication, only half (50%) had improvement (pain free?)  when the nails were removed.

Love that picture, but you can't beat this video.  It shall be posted everytime anybody need to chill out. 


« Last Edit: December 10, 2013, 09:32:20 PM by Admin »
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Rivers

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Re: What is the Long term effect of LL? Anyone know please answer. Thanks
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2013, 07:49:43 PM »

Here is my question to Dr. Franz Birkholtz.

I would also like to clarify the numbers you gave for tibia lengthening. Are you saying 50% of patients will experience knee pain throughout their life using LON, LATN or internal nail for tibia lengthening?

Here is Dr. Franz Birkholtz answer.

The anterior knee pain rates quoted is unfortunately permanent.

There seems to be come confusion over the numbers.
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Russianblues

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Re: What is the Long term effect of LL? Anyone know please answer. Thanks
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2013, 08:09:39 PM »

There is no confusion, just people with poor comprehension and others taking quotes out of context. Franz was very clear honestly. Undoubtedly some will read this thread and make massive life changing decisions, sorry for wanting to make the information to be accurate? Didn't really mean the post to be over hostile though.


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Doflamingo

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Re: What is the Long term effect of LL? Anyone know please answer. Thanks
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2013, 12:09:18 AM »

The point is that there are some permanent "complications" after LL.
Question is: how can we prevent/treat it? I wonder why it's the knee, gotta do some more research.
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Taller

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Re: What is the Long term effect of LL? Anyone know please answer. Thanks
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2013, 03:42:14 AM »

The point is that there are some permanent "complications" after LL.
Question is: how can we prevent/treat it? I wonder why it's the knee, gotta do some more research.

Doflamingo,

The patellar tendon is split in order to insert IM nails into the knees. This is an important tendon for knee flexion, and doesn't always heal properly from the operations to insert and remove nails. Dr. Franz kindly provided us the statistics regarding the percentage of patients who end up with permanent knee pain.

Unfortunately, there is no other way to insert a lengthening nail into the tibia. So if you do, LON, LATN, or internal lengthening you run a high risk of being stuck with permanent knee pain. It's just the harsh reality of LL, and, unlike the old forum, here we believe that it's best to disclose this BEFORE a prospective lengthener jumps the gun and gets nails inserted.

Your best bet to minimize your chances of permanent knee pain is to do external fixation ONLY and not remove the frame until your bones have fully consolidated. You should do this with a weight-bearing frame (like the Taylor Spatial) and walk and stand, or your muscles will completely atrophy during lengthening, and you run the risk of getting severe ballerina foot. Unfortunately, given your particular time constraint of 2-3 months to do LL, externals-only may not be a feasible option, and you may have to run the risk of getting permanent knee pain or forego LL altogether. The choice is ultimately yours, but please take the time to become as informed as possible.

Best wishes,

Tall
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Doflamingo

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Re: What is the Long term effect of LL? Anyone know please answer. Thanks
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2013, 10:56:09 AM »

Thanks Tall.
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Carter

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Re: What is the Long term effect of LL? Anyone know please answer. Thanks
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2013, 01:52:35 PM »

From the old forum, the Dictator deleted a post from Shorty who request for removal of his LL photos, they ignored patient rights to privacy. Screw them!

Questions from Member

1) If you do LL in your tibias, will this somehow also have impact on your upperleg (for eg: shortening in the muscle hamstring)?
2) Is LL the cause of x and o legs? If yes, how to treat or prevent it?
3) Pinbending is caused by standing; let's say I'll only do 5cm but I'd rather not have any pinbending and yet I want the best for my soft tissues, what should I do? I was thinking of simply stretching in bed, or isn't that enough? Any suggestions please.
4) Will take supplements make you heal faster? (multivitamin, calcium, protein, ...)? I'm planning to take them (limited).
5) Are ballerinas and duck-asses treatable on a natural way (no operation) after LL? Or is it forever?
6) How do you take showers with external devices on your legs? Cover them with plastic (wouldn't the water come it?)
7) After frame removal, how long do you have to stay in bed before walking?
8-) Do you lose some cm after removal the internal&externals? Let's say I want 5cm, how long should I lengthen to be sure? 6cm?

Answers from The Dictator:

1. Yes. Muscles in your upper and lower legs are connected by tendons, ligaments, fascia and other soft tissues. When you lengthen one part of your leg it stretches these tissues throughout your leg. Each stretches to a different degree. Your hamstring will stretch also, which is why it is important to do physical therapy and weight bearing while you lengthen.
2. X-Legs (Genu valgum) and O-Legs (Genu varum) naturally occur in the legs of some people and can be corrected during leg lengthening. It can also be caused by leg lengthening if it is done improperly.
3. Stretching in bed is not enough to keep yourself from getting ballerina foot (Equinus contracture) while lengthening tibias for most people. Weight bearing and direct pressure on the soft tissues is what keeps the body closest to its natural state of use and is the best way to prevent it. Pin bending is common for patients that lengthen with an Illizirov Frame if they weight bear on that frame while lengthening. How much depends on many factors. It is better to have pin bending and lengthen a little longer than to sit in bed for months on end and then have a long recovery from ballerina foot.
4. Eating properly will help you heal faster than taking supplements and not eating enough of the nutrients you need. Food contains vitamins that are eminently more absorbable than a multi-vitamin pill.
5. You are much better off preventing ballerina foot (Equinus contracture) and duck-ass (Hyperlordosis) in the first place. This can be done to a different degree in every patient with daily physical therapy, weight bearing, and safe physical activity that involves the legs (pilates, yoga, exercise bike). Rarely is surgery necessary to remove the condition if you get it. Weight bearing over time (by walking) will resolve the issue almost all of the time.
6. Most doctors have their patients cover the frames with some sort of plastic cover.
7. This varies with each patient. Do not expect your result to be exactly the same as another patient. Your doctor can give you a guideline for what is common, but this is very individual.
8. This tends to be very little. I have seen some people claim as much as .5 CM but I have not seen evidence of it.

===========
Questions from Member

1) what can you tell about the knee damage after LL? Ive heard many LL will suffer from knee pain in future.
2) is there a way to speedup your recovery time (beside eating, drinkin, exercising,...)?
3) im going to do tibias in summer with lon, all ill do is train my muscles (legs) and stretch a lot, are there any other suggestion to prepare myself?
4) do you recommend sringari? Because he's the only one in my price range Sad. (Gotta do in summrr 2014, now or never).
5) please correct me if wrong: ballerina is caused by lack of physio during LL, but it can be "cured" after ll right?

Answers from the Dictator

1. I have seen a lot of LL patients, and almost all of them have fully recovered. The only one I know of personally that had serious knee problems did external femur lengthening and had a lot of problems. I would avoid external femur lengthening if you can. I had pain in my knees after LL but it went away. If you lengthen a reasonable amount and are religious with your physical therapy then you should be fine.
2. No. The less you lengthen the faster you will recover, but there is no magic bullet to make your body heal faster if you are healthy and doing everything right. You sure as hell can slow it down by doing everything wrong.
3. No. Have strong legs, good health, good flexibility and prepare your self mentally for the pain and difficulty of LL and you will do fine.
4. I have met and spoken to Dr. Sringari and we talked extensively about patient care (I had just fought with Dr. Sarin about that same topic and it was fresh on my mind). I believe he is a good doctor and is doing a good job for his patients so far. I am keeping an eye on him as best as I can from half way around the world.  ( This part is BULL )  :)
5. Ballerina is caused by your ligaments being stretched because the bone they are attached to is getting longer and they cannot adapt quickly enough. They are forced to stretch and adapt by the forced stretching of physical therapy and weight bearing.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2013, 02:04:39 PM by Carter »
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Rivers

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Re: What is the Long term effect of LL? Anyone know please answer. Thanks
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2013, 02:42:02 PM »

The patellar tendon is split in order to insert IM nails into the knees.

Unfortunately, there is no other way to insert a lengthening nail into the tibia.

Wrong! Well trained surgeons almost never split the patella tendon to insert an IM nail for tibia lengthening. That is why Dr. Sarin split the patella tendon because he is not well trained. Well trained surgeons go around the patella tendon. If you actually read what Dr. Birkholtz said then you would know that splitting the patella tendon or going around the tendon is not the cause of the life long knee pain. It's the change in the structure of the bone after reaming the tibia.

Nobody really seems to know. Initially we thought it may have do do with whether you split the patella tendon to insert the nail. Going through or next to the tendon does not seem to make a difference though.
It probably is multifactorial, but may have something to do with the change in threedimensional architechture of the proximal tibia as a result of the nail. Put in layman's terms: it's probably because we make a huge hole and shove a piece of metal down it!
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Taller

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Re: What is the Long term effect of LL? Anyone know please answer. Thanks
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2013, 05:27:10 PM »

Wrong! Well trained surgeons almost never split the patella tendon to insert an IM nail for tibia lengthening. That is why Dr. Sarin split the patella tendon because he is not well trained. Well trained surgeons go around the patella tendon. If you actually read what Dr. Birkholtz said then you would know that splitting the patella tendon or going around the tendon is not the cause of the life long knee pain. It's the change in the structure of the bone after reaming the tibia.

Thanks for correcting this misunderstanding, Rivers. Still, the risk of permanent knee pain is directly caused by putting IM nails in the tibiae, so the only way to avoid that would be do use external fixation exclusively, correct?
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Keep Growing

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Re: What is the Long term effect of LL? Anyone know please answer. Thanks
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2013, 05:52:17 PM »

But how about internal femurs? Is the chance on me ending up with a knee pain after doing internals on femurs as big as for doing internal tibias?
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Metanoia

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Re: What is the Long term effect of LL? Anyone know please answer. Thanks
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2013, 09:34:50 PM »

Hi everybody,

To ascertain the long-term effects of LL one has to look at different scenarios. The worst case is being crippled for life, amputations, chronical infections, chronical pains, premature arthritis, etc. The best case is being taller without any negative long-term effects. Everybody hopes for the latter, but what if something out the worst happens? There will be no plan B. And there won't be any going back to the state before LL. Therefore anybody considering LL should be really aware of those risks and really imagine what could happen. Are you really willing to gamble with your health?
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Medium Drink Of Water

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Re: What is the Long term effect of LL? Anyone know please answer. Thanks
« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2013, 10:19:53 PM »

Wrong! Well trained surgeons almost never split the patella tendon to insert an IM nail for tibia lengthening. That is why Dr. Sarin split the patella tendon because he is not well trained. Well trained surgeons go around the patella tendon. If you actually read what Dr. Birkholtz said then you would know that splitting the patella tendon or going around the tendon is not the cause of the life long knee pain. It's the change in the structure of the bone after reaming the tibia.

In the quote from Franz he says it doesn't make a difference whether it's split or pulled aside, you have the same result, so what does it matter?  Is this more anti-Sarin fiction from old forum  like that whole c-cut business?
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Gained 3 inches on tibias (Ilizarov LON) in 2007 at the Beijing Institute of External Skeletal Fixation Technology with Prof. Hetao Xia and Dr. Aiming Peng.

If you have any questions, ask them here rather than by Private Message:
http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=64544

Disobedient

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Re: What is the Long term effect of LL? Anyone know please answer. Thanks
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2013, 01:25:28 AM »



so in general it seems that the external method is the safest in term of permanent knee problem and pain ,right
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whysoserious

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Re: What is the Long term effect of LL? Anyone know please answer. Thanks
« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2013, 09:07:55 AM »

Hi everybody,

To ascertain the long-term effects of LL one has to look at different scenarios. The worst case is being crippled for life, amputations, chronical infections, chronical pains, premature arthritis, etc. The best case is being taller without any negative long-term effects. Everybody hopes for the latter, but what if something out the worst happens? There will be no plan B. And there won't be any going back to the state before LL. Therefore anybody considering LL should be really aware of those risks and really imagine what could happen. Are you really willing to gamble with your health?

Crippled and amputations are the reason why i havent done my LL. Those 2 are the worst case scenario. But i dont know, if u go to a good surgeon, u wouldnt get that.
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Medium Drink Of Water

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Re: What is the Long term effect of LL? Anyone know please answer. Thanks
« Reply #22 on: December 12, 2013, 02:27:55 PM »

Crippled and amputations are the reason why i havent done my LL. Those 2 are the worst case scenario. But i dont know, if u go to a good surgeon, u wouldnt get that.

Right.  If you go to a good surgeon, probably not.  Based on Professor Xia's LL record, I calculated that my risk of being crippled was 0.002%.

But there is always some small risk, nobody will deny that.
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Gained 3 inches on tibias (Ilizarov LON) in 2007 at the Beijing Institute of External Skeletal Fixation Technology with Prof. Hetao Xia and Dr. Aiming Peng.

If you have any questions, ask them here rather than by Private Message:
http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=64544

BilateralDamage

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Re: What is the Long term effect of LL? Anyone know please answer. Thanks
« Reply #23 on: December 12, 2013, 03:25:36 PM »

Let's just put it this way- you have a 10x higher chance of being crippled on your drive to the hospital than you do under the knife.

As far as long term effects, I think Dr. Birkholtz was on the money with 25% of people having lifelong knee problems.  I'm a little scared of that myself, since I already have pretty bad knees.
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Carter

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Re: What is the Long term effect of LL? Anyone know please answer. Thanks
« Reply #24 on: December 12, 2013, 06:00:32 PM »

Every surgery is a risk, the odds of being crippled and amputations from LL is very very low if you have a good Doctor.   Main concern will be recovery of walking and sporting ability.
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Taller

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Re: What is the Long term effect of LL? Anyone know please answer. Thanks
« Reply #25 on: December 12, 2013, 11:29:12 PM »

Let's just put it this way- you have a 10x higher chance of being crippled on your drive to the hospital than you do under the knife.

As far as long term effects, I think Dr. Birkholtz was on the money with 25% of people having lifelong knee problems.  I'm a little scared of that myself, since I already have pretty bad knees.

Same here. I can easily stomach a 0.002% chance of being crippled, but hate to think of the 25% chance of permanent knee pain. That's really high in my book. Personally, I am very short, but also very athletic. It sucks to know that you can't be the person you want to be, at least socially-speaking, because of a physical limitation like short stature, unless you run a high risk of trading it for another physical limitation that would also inhibit you from becoming your dream self (potentially severely diminished athleticism). I just wish we could have the best of both worlds, and this forum is a huge leap in helping us be informed enough to achieve that.

My thoughts now are that exclusively external LL, with a fully weight-bearing frame, followed by stem cell injections during consolidation may be the safest route for those seeking to avoid knee pain. I have also heard that Dr. Salameh's patented fixator involves inserting pins in a way that completely avoids muscles. I don't know how true this is, but, if true, it might really facilitate complete recovery.
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Medium Drink Of Water

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Re: What is the Long term effect of LL? Anyone know please answer. Thanks
« Reply #26 on: December 12, 2013, 11:56:13 PM »

None of the external tibia fixators have pins going through the muscle.  That only happens if the surgeon is incompetent and can't aim the pins properly.
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Gained 3 inches on tibias (Ilizarov LON) in 2007 at the Beijing Institute of External Skeletal Fixation Technology with Prof. Hetao Xia and Dr. Aiming Peng.

If you have any questions, ask them here rather than by Private Message:
http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=64544

BilateralDamage

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Re: What is the Long term effect of LL? Anyone know please answer. Thanks
« Reply #27 on: December 13, 2013, 04:34:38 AM »

Tall,

Kinda curious to hear more about your athleticism.  What sport(s)?  To make this board more of a community, there should be a section where we can just post threads intro'ing ourselves (maybe talk about why we're here in the first place) and revealing some key info we don't mind sharing.  That would be pretty neat to have. :)

My gameplan right now is to get femurs first done in May 2014 with PRECICE and then move on to either LON or external tibiae within a year (of course, nothing works according to your plan).  Stem cells + externals sounds like a great idea too.
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Taller

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Re: What is the Long term effect of LL? Anyone know please answer. Thanks
« Reply #28 on: December 14, 2013, 01:55:49 AM »

Tall,

Kinda curious to hear more about your athleticism.  What sport(s)?  To make this board more of a community, there should be a section where we can just post threads intro'ing ourselves (maybe talk about why we're here in the first place) and revealing some key info we don't mind sharing.  That would be pretty neat to have. :)

My gameplan right now is to get femurs first done in May 2014 with PRECICE and then move on to either LON or external tibiae within a year (of course, nothing works according to your plan).  Stem cells + externals sounds like a great idea too.

Hey BD,

I love your idea of an page where we can introduce and get to know each other. It would definitely lend itself very nicely to our smaller-sized community. Maybe we can create a whole section dedicated to just that.

I found it really cool to hear someone (besides myself  ;)) be interested in my athletic hobbies. On the other site I always used to get the impression that the general attitude was "if you don't play sports for a living, then your athleticism post-LL doesn't matter". But sports are a great way for people of all ages and sizes to find happiness, self esteem, friendship, and relaxation. It really makes me sad when people have to miss out due to physical limitations. My community hosts quite a few sports leagues for people with various handicaps, and I can definitely say that the therapeutic and healing potential of sport (and exercise in general), on so many levels, can't be underestimated.

Personally, I've always been a huge fan of cross-country and track running. When I was a younger man, I was a regional cross country champion. My best events were the 10K and 5k, but I wasn't too shabby at the 1600 meter and 3200 meter races either. Cross country was really a special place for me because I feel like longer-distance running is really one of the relatively few areas of high-intensity sports where smaller people can really thrive. If you've seen the size of olympic marathon runners you know what I mean. However, I've gotten old enough that I'm pretty sure I won't be a cross country champion anytime soon (but hey, who can predict the future  ;D). I'm under 30, but I've definitely passed my fastest days. That being said, I still do lots and lots of running and biking, in all sorts of settings. Trail running and mountain biking are among my favorites. I also rock climb, and have heard that most professional climbers have shorter arms and a relatively big leg-length to body-length ratio. So LL'ers would be perfect candidates!  :D

Height has always been a source of insecurity for me. I've had a degree of height neurosis ever since I was cut from my high school basketball team years ago for being too short (just like MJ, except I didn't have a growth spurt later on  >:(). I refocused a lot of my energy on training for cross country and that took my happiness to new levels. Many years later, I definitely feel good about myself, but frequently feel like I just can't be the leader or alpha in social situations because very few actually take short guys as seriously as teller people in many contexts. I also have a thing for taller girls, funny given my own height. I find that quite a few of them more down to earth and less superficial since a lot of them have also sometimes had a hard time on account of their height. But it's sure ironic that many of them still won't date a short guy. Personally, I've lost jobs and awards to less qualified candidates, and feel almost certain that my height played a role in it, at least subconsciously. Obviously, the problem is with society and not with me, but Rome wasn't built in a day and society isn't going to change overnight. My ideal plan is to successfully get LL, but then, as an average to tall person (depending on how much and how many times I ultimately lengthen, treat short people exactly the same as anyone tall, helping society to change. I'm just getting the surgery because that change won't be fast enough to make me happy, and I don't know if I'll be around when society fully changes (although I'm sure it WILL happen eventually). I also have always felt like I'm a tall guy who got a short guy's body. Kinda strange, I know, but that's honestly a good way to describe it. LL will definitely be my only cosmetic surgery.

I am alright losing some athleticism to LL, since I am well beyond my days of competition and wanting to "win" in athletics. But, and it's a major but, if I lost my ability to run 10 kilometers at a speed that actually feels like running and not jogging, or my ability to jump, climb, play football decently, or squat, I know I'd be really depressed. Plus, if I did become taller, why not pick up basketball again, since height's seriously the only thing that's been holding me back all these years, at least in basketball?

Sports have been such a big part of my existence and I plan to participate in them for the rest of my life. I know this isn't necessarily the ideal attitude to have on an LL forum, but I'm willing to spend 3 years and a lot of dedication recovering, and at least I'll have very fit and flexible legs when I actually get to start my LL. If anything should go very wrong and I did end up crippled, I would resort to kayaking and stay active that way. It's important to be optimistic, but with a surgery like LL, a back-up plan definitely won't hurt.

If anyone else here is also a sportsman or has other cool hobbies, I'd genuinely love to hear about those as well! It's so great seeing that the members of this forum are truly devoted to learning about how LL affects the body long term, and how possible it is to fully recover. Thanks BilateralDamage for the great ideas!

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speaknuh

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Re: What is the Long term effect of LL? Anyone know please answer. Thanks
« Reply #29 on: December 20, 2013, 12:44:17 PM »

Yeah, I think this site is far from dead.  The problem I see is that there aren't very many trusted methods of communication on the subject of leg lengthening.  So much misinformation gets thrown around and it's near impossible to verify anything, and really the only certainty we have are the doctors who perform the surgeries- most notably those who have been recognized for their involvement in CLL for several years now. 

For those of us who are detail-oriented (because why wouldn't you be when you plan on having your legs cut open) it's hard not to feel a little phased by the profound lack of verifiable information out there.  For example, in the recent discussion of the long term effects of CLL and the possibility that one might sustain knee problems from doing internal tibial surgery, we have little basis to confirm any of this is true besides the word of doctor Franz Birkholtz.  Which is not to say that I wish to scrutinize the doctor here since it's got more to do with the nature of internet anonymity in the end.  I suggest cross referencing with another doctor would definitely prove useful here, but that hasn't been done yet. 

Let's not forget that this is our legs we're talking about.  No sane person here would be willing to do the surgery at the cost of losing functionality, or experiencing long term pain/complications from CLL.  I think about this a lot.  There's no reason in doing something for cosmetic purposes if there's a high risk of incurring long term issues from the whole procedure. 

The user stillyoung suggested we start a CLL wiki, which would help consolidate the information a little better.  In the end, the most important factor here are the experienced doctors.  Their word trumps any member of the forum here, to be honest... and I trust their collective insight on CLL beyond anyone else.
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LLL

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Re: What is the Long term effect of LL? Anyone know please answer. Thanks
« Reply #30 on: December 20, 2013, 01:52:56 PM »

For example, in the recent discussion of the long term effects of CLL and the possibility that one might sustain knee problems from doing internal tibial surgery, we have little basis to confirm any of this is true besides the word of doctor Franz Birkholtz.  Which is not to say that I wish to scrutinize the doctor here since it's got more to do with the nature of internet anonymity in the end.  I suggest cross referencing with another doctor would definitely prove useful here, but that hasn't been done yet. 

Actually that particular issue is confirmed through recent research on non-cosmetic patients and not just the word of one doctor:

http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=99.msg2672#msg2672

And I bet many of them didn't even lengthen much, they simply had a rod implanted to help correct their injuries.
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